Known worldwide as Bucky Barnes in seven (soon eight!) Marvel pictures, Sebastian Stan wowed festival audiences by showcasing himself as one of this year’s most intriguing, noteworthy character actors. First in Aaron Schimberg’s stirring A Different Man, and now as one of the most recognized faces on the planet, Donald J. Trump in the provocative upcoming biopic, The Apprentice. The movie also stars Maria Bakalova as Ivana Trump and Martin Donovan as Fred Trump.
From director Ali Abbasi (Border) comes The Apprentice. The fantastic movie is a grounded, gritty exploration of the corrosive and unpredictable relationship of infamous McCarthy-era prosecutor Roy Cohn (Jeremy Strong) and Trump. During this interview, Stan sat with Collider’s Steve Weintraub to discuss the film’s acute punk rock feel, the moral grayness of Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, and the complexities of portraying such controversial figureheads. Steve also did his best to get some Marvel tea brewing for Stan’s dedicated Winter Soldier fanbase. Check out the full conversation in the transcript below.
The Punk Rock Aesthetic of ‘The Apprentice’
COLLIDER: As I said to you when we spoke for A Different Man , I thought you did such fantastic work in this, and also Ali did such fantastic work. I rewatched it yesterday and one of the things that I really took away from it is that it has this punk rock feel to it, the way he shot it, the energy of the film. Did that come across to you when you were making it?
SEBASTIAN STAN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Ali and our incredible DP, Kasper Tuxen, were really aligned on this vision of making the film feel very energetic, raw, real. They were both very influenced by Lars von Trier in terms of the editing and so on. They were constantly talking about that. But I also feel Ali was trying to capture a very gritty New York of the time that maybe you can find in Sidney Lumet movies tonally. But I always knew this was not going to be a conventional biopic by any means. I always knew that we were going to go into this with some sort of guerilla-style, “Let’s go out there and just see what happens” kind of approach. That’s what we did, in a way.
How Sebastian Stan Became Donald Trump
“If you’re looking at him from back in the day, this was not the same guy we’re seeing 24/7 today.”sebastian-stan-the-apprentice-1
One of the things that I commend you on is that your performance is not an SNL-type caricature. It is like you’ve captured the essence of who he is. I know you’ve answered this about a thousand times, but what was it like those weeks before stepping on set to try to make sure, “I have this. This isn’t gonna be a caricature?”
STAN: It was really nerve-wracking. It was scary. It was daunting. It felt like staring at a giant mountain to climb. Again, a lot of that preparation for me was about figuring out what not to do. It was a little bit of understanding that people are going to come at this with really strong feelings, with their own impression of this person, with their own opinions, with their own projections, and everything. I had to find a way to introduce him in a way that I felt hadn’t been introduced yet and try to find the human being. Try to ground it in as much in reality as possible. So I did actually watch as much as I could of what everybody else was doing.
Obviously, when you’re playing a real person — and especially when you’re playing him — you have to make a choice about a certain degree of things that you’re going to take on in an organic way that is not a caricature but that is recognizable to the person. He speaks a certain way, he gesticulates, he has a body language, he has expressions, he has a way he carries himself into the room. I watched that very much. Those evolved over time. If you’re looking at him from back in the day, this was not the same guy we’re seeing 24/7 today. So then I felt like I had to chart this evolution across time.
But most importantly, you go to what’s inside. As an actor, you have to make some choices about what it is that’s happening on the inside that’s motivating everything else on the exterior. Where is that coming from? There seemed, always, to be a lot to prove. There seemed a great need to be heard, a great need to succeed, a great need to overcome, and perhaps fill a certain hole that was there. This is why it’s a movie, this is why it’s an interpretation, and this is eleven people’s portrayal of this. Maybe somebody else would have taken it in a different direction. We wanted this to be as grounded and as real as possible.
Sebastian Stan Spars With the Incomparable Jeremy Strong
Like everyone, I’m a big fan of Jeremy’s work. What is it like actually working with someone who is so passionate about a role? He goes for it, and his headspace is there all the time. What was it like sharing the screen with him?
STAN: It was exciting. I think you always want a really dedicated sparring partner. We went into this as committed as possible. I only felt elevated by him because I knew how prepared he was gonna be, and that made me wanna be as prepared as I could be. Because we were doing these scenes, and we were improvising in the scenes, Ali was giving us different directions take-to-take. The camera was consistently moving take-to-take. There were no marks on the floor. There were no set rehearsals. Everything was happening and changing as we were going. There was a degree of flexibility in the moment that I think we had to have with each other, and the only way you can do that is if you are staying in it 100%.
This was one of those unique experiences where I felt it really benefited both of us. But there was a degree of awe that I had for Jeremy, I think, in terms of his commitment, that also matched very much with the degree Donald had towards Roy. So, there was a lot that was happening that felt very real and organic. I felt very blessed to have him as a partner. I couldn’t imagine anybody else doing it.
With Roy and Donald’s relationship, this is a little bit like Frankenstein, in which the creator loses control of the creation. Can you talk about that aspect and about that relationship? Roy was a terrible person, but he loved America. What’s happened with Trump, I’m sure he would be turning over in his grave.
STAN: These guys are very complicated, complex people. Terrible people are just as complex as great, morally incredible people. They have their own nuances. I don’t doubt that Roy Cohn loved America. I don’t doubt that Donald Trump loves America. I don’t. I don’t think that’s what this is about. I think it’s about: at what cost? I think it’s about how far one can go in the pursuit of power, in the pursuit of winning — and certainly, truth is relative. That’s what’s scary about it. That’s what’s scary about it because truth ultimately does not matter when you’re setting to get what you want to get. I think that the scary degree of commitment and validation that Roy Cohn carried towards the things that he believed he imparted to Donald.
Again, here we go back to this idea, this very American idea — the pursuit of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of the American dream. To what extent are we willing to sacrifice for it? And if we’re willing to sacrifice values, virtues, morals, empathy, and all of those things in order to get it, then what does that make us? What does that leave us with? Does that still make us a hero? This is the question, and there’s no real answer.
It’s not so simple to just go, “Oh, this is a horrible person.” It’s not so simple to be like, “Well, he did incredible things.” Well, guess what? There were great ideas he did have. Donald Trump had great ideas towards New York City at the time — for what he was pursuing and what he was offering. There were many people who celebrated him. It’s not this or that. It’s much more gray and complex. I think we have to pick apart these things. At some point, we have to look at exactly what’s on the table. What are the things that we can call that are great things? And what are the things that we can call that are not necessarily things to be proud of?
Will Bucky Barnes Show Up in the Next Avengers Movie?
I have to wrap with you, but I have to ask one last thing. Has anyone at Marvel or the Russo Brothers asked you to save any dates next year?
STAN: No, I have not heard from anyone of Marvel. I don’t even know where they are right now. We’ve just finished Thunderbolts*, so I’m still trying to figure out when we’re getting together because that’s coming out in May. I’ve kind of lost track of what is shooting now. I know Fantastic Four is shooting now, but I don’t know what’s even shooting next year.
It’s the Avengers movies, which I would be surprised if you’re not a part of.
STAN: Alright. Well, you’re a man with a lot to say, and you’ve done this for a long time. I think if anybody knows something, it’s you.
I’m seeing Joe and Anthony [Russo] in a week at New York Comic-Con and I will definitely be bringing it up.
STAN: Please do. Write me an email. [Laughs]
For real, fantastic work in this. It’s such a good film.
STAN: Thank you so much. Hopefully, one of these days, we’ll meet in person again.
The Apprentice is now playing in theaters.